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Ray
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Registered: 06/25/06
Posts: 77

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    08/12/09 at 10:06 PM
  Reply with quote#1

Can you give me the answer to these verses that the Muslims use to say that our Bible has contradiction.
(a) The "Lord" tempted David . . . 2 SAMUEL 24:1
or "Satan" provoked David . . . 1 CHRONICLES 21:1

(b) 700 or 7000? "Horsemen" or "Footmen" . . .? 2 SAMUEL 10:18 vs 1
CHRONICLES 19:18

(c) Solomon had 2000 baths or 3000 baths? 1 KINGS 7:26 vs 2
CHRONICLES 4:5

(d) Solomon had 4000 stalls of horses or 40000? 2 CHRONICLES 9:25 vs
1 KINGS 4:26

(e) Did Saul inquire of the Lord or didn't he? 1 SAMUEL 28:6 vs 1
CHRONICLES 10:13-14

(f) Heaven, no man hath ascended JOHN 3:13
Contradicted by: 2 KINGS 2:11 Elijah ascended, and GENESIS 5:24
Enoch ascended.

(g) Jesus lost "None" of his disciples JOHN 18:9
Contradicted by: He lost only "One" JOHN 17:12

Ray

 

 

melchishua772
Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 1

    09/04/09 at 02:59 AM
  Reply with quote#2

These two men may have ascended into heaven but they ended up in the heart of the earth in Paradise Abraham Bosom...
LUKE 16.20-25

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RightDividers
jpourcy
Registered: 06/25/06
Posts: 15

    11/23/09 at 12:00 AM
  Reply with quote#3

Hi Ray,

Quote:

Can you give me the answer to these verses that the Muslims use to say that our Bible has contradiction.
(a) The "Lord" tempted David . . . 2 SAMUEL 24:1
or "Satan" provoked David . . . 1 CHRONICLES 21:1



As it says in 2nd Samuel 24,

"1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah."

The Lord was angry with Israel. As with Job, the Lord used Satan to cause Job to have problems, he did the same with David and used this to punish Israel.

In 1st Kings 22 it says,

"19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.

21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.

22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so."

The Lord can use spirits to persuade men. He used Satan with Job and David.

In 1st Chronicles 21 it says,

"1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel."

The Lord was angry with Israel and used Satan to provoke David to number the children of Israel so he could punish them.

Both scriptures are correct. They do not contradict one another.

Quote:

(b) 700 or 7000? "Horsemen" or "Footmen" . . .? 2 SAMUEL 10:18 vs 1
CHRONICLES 19:18



2nd Samuel 10:18 says,

"18 And the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew the men of seven hundred chariots of the Syrians, and forty thousand horsemen, and smote Shobach the captain of their host, who died there."

1st Chronicles 19:18 says,

"18 But the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew of the Syrians seven thousand men which fought in chariots, and forty thousand footmen, and killed Shophach the captain of the host."

Depending on the size of the chariots, each chariot had more than one man in them. One person had to drive the chariot which he becomes fairly useless fighting such as an archer or a spearman. An archer needs both hands to shoot his arrows and it would be very tough for a spearman to drive a chariot and throw spears at the same time. Some of these chariots could hold several men and you actually wanted them to because if a chariot had just 1 man and he was killed the chariot was useless. You did not want to hand your chariot over to the enemy for then they would use it against you.

As the battle rages on and people were killed from the chariots they went back to the main group and reloaded the chariots with men, arrows, spears and other weapons. You didn't just quit because you ran out of arrows or somebody died, you went back and reloaded for the next run.

This is how it says they slew the men of 700 chariots, but these chariots had more than one man in them plus they reloaded when people were killed. It says 7000 men which fought in chariots so obviously it was about 10 per chariot.

Concerning the horsemen or footmen, if a horseman lost his horse in battle or got off of his horse to fight, he became a footman. So if he was on his horse he was a horseman and if he was off his horse he was footman.

Same people. There were forty thousand of them killed.

No contradictions here.

Quote:

(c) Solomon had 2000 baths or 3000 baths? 1 KINGS 7:26 vs 2
CHRONICLES 4:5



A bath is a unit of measurement, about 6 gallons. In 1st Kings 7 it says,

"23 And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.

26 And it was an hand breadth thick, and the brim thereof was wrought like the brim of a cup, with flowers of lilies: it contained two thousand baths."

In 2nd Chronicles it says,

"5 And the thickness of it was an handbreadth, and the brim of it like the work of the brim of a cup, with flowers of lilies; and it received and held three thousand baths."

Both of these scriptures are correct. We do not know what the maximum number of baths the molten see can hold but here it says it held three thousand so we know it can hold at least three thousand. In the other verse it says it contained two thousand.

If it can hold three thousand it surely can contain two thousand or one thousand or five hundred baths depending on how full they want it.

There is no contradiction here.

Quote:

(d) Solomon had 4000 stalls of horses or 40000? 2 CHRONICLES 9:25 vs
1 KINGS 4:26



In 2nd Chronicles 9 it says,

"25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem."

In 1st Kings 4 it says,

"26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen."

One says, four thousand stalls FOR horses AND chariots.

The other says, forty thousand stalls OF horses FOR his chariots.

Besides the number difference, these verses are not saying the same thing. Most chariots had more than one horse. Why? Go into battle with a one horse chariot and the enemy will go for the horse. Kill the horse and the chariot is useless and the people in the chariot are stranded.

You use multiple horse chariots. If one horse gets killed or wounded you cut him loose and can still make it back to camp with the other horses.

It says in one verse, four thousand stalls FOR horses AND chariots. So let's look at a chariot stall:


This chariot stall has a place for ten horses. Ten horse stalls.

Chariot horses get wounded and killed in battle, and you have to keep spare horses especially with multiple horse chariots.

Each chariot stall had 10 horse stalls in them for a total of 4000 chariots and 40,000 horses.

No contradiction here.

Getting late. I will have to finish up tomorrow.

Jerry

Ray
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Registered: 06/25/06
Posts: 77

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    11/23/09 at 04:53 PM
  Reply with quote#4

Thanks Jerry Good answers. They are always trying disprove the scriptures.

jpourcy
Registered: 06/25/06
Posts: 15

    11/23/09 at 11:19 PM
  Reply with quote#5

Hi Ray,

I'm glad you liked the answers. Let's give God the glory.

Yes, people are always trying to condemn the King James bible, and really no matter how many times you disprove their "seemingly" contradictions, they will never believe and they will just search for more seemingly contradictions. The scripture says in Luke 16:

"31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."

If they don't believe Moses and the prophets, they will never be persuaded. You just have to believe God's word and they do not and probably never will.

You cannot prove to people that God's word is holy and without blemish, you just have to believe it is because he says so.

Quote:

(e) Did Saul inquire of the Lord or didn't he? 1 SAMUEL 28:6 vs 1
CHRONICLES 10:13-14



In first Samuel 28 it says,

"6 And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets."

And in 1st Chronicles 10 it says,

"13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;

14 And enquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse."

In Genesis 4 it says,

"3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."

Questions:

Did Cain bring an offering unto the Lord? YES.

Did Cain bring an ACCEPTABLE offering unto the Lord? NO.

The same goes for Saul.

Did Saul make an inquiry to the Lord. YES.

Did Saul make an ACCEPTABLE inquiry to the Lord. NO.

Saul had sinned before the Lord and had transgression. Saul did not humble himself before the Lord to make his inquiry of him. Saul did not confess his sin before the Lord.

Example:

In Daniel 9, Daniel was very concerned about his people and inquired of the Lord.

"3 And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes:

4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

5 We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments:"

Daniel continues in the next few verses to confess his sin and the sin of the people. Not only did Daniel confess his sin and the sin of the people, he also fasted and prayed in sackcloth and ashes.

Daniel humbled himself before the Lord. Saul did no such thing. Saul was in transgression and did not confess his sin nor did he humble himself before the Lord, therefore his inquiry to the Lord was not acceptable and the Lord rejected it. Therefore his inquiry counted for nothing.

Did Saul have an inquiry to the Lord. Yes.

Did Saul have an ACCEPTABLE inquiry to the Lord. NO. His inquiry went on deaf ears and was counted for nought just as if he did not inquire of the Lord.

So what did Saul do? Instead of humbling himself before the Lord and confessing his sin he went to someone with a familiar spirit and he was eventually punished for it.

Once again, no contradiction here.

Quote:

(f) Heaven, no man hath ascended JOHN 3:13
Contradicted by: 2 KINGS 2:11 Elijah ascended, and GENESIS 5:24
Enoch ascended.



In John 3 it says,

"13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

The Lord Jesus Christ is the only man that can ascend into heaven or descend from heaven under his own power.

Enoch and Elijah did not have the power to ascend into heaven. God had to take them. Enoch was translated and Elijah was taken by a whirlwind. They both ascended into heaven but not under their own power as Jesus could.

It is not possible for any man to ascend into heaven under his own power. Even at the adoption (rapture) we cannot ascend under our own power. The Lord will have to raise us up and take us into heaven.

Conclusion: No man hath ascended up to heaven. They were all taken into heaven. Sure, when they went up into heaven and you can call that ascending just as a man can ascend up a mountain, but going into heaven you cannot do it under your own power, you have to be taken by the Lord in order to ascend into heaven. Only Jesus can do that under his own power.

Ascending into heaven under your own power and ascending into heaven by being taken are two different things.

By the way, more than likely Enoch and Elijah are probably 2 of the 24 elders in heaven around the throne. The other 22 also ascended into heaven but not under their own power. They were taken also.

Quote:

(g) Jesus lost "None" of his disciples JOHN 18:9
Contradicted by: He lost only "One" JOHN 17:12



In John 18 it says,

"9 That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none."

In John 17 it says,

"12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

Judas was lost, but Jesus did not lose him. Judas betrayed Jesus on his own accord. Satan entered into Judas and led Judas to do what he did.

Jesus did not have anything to do with "losing" Judas.

Both of these scriptures are correct. Jesus did not lose any, but Judas was lost because of himself, not because of Jesus.


Jerry
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